La Capra

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Posts by La Capra

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  15

  weird reasoning...

  by zaphod in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a cousin of mine was married to a brother at seventeen for two years.

  they both pioneered and were, evidently, a happy spiritual couple.. my cousin realised that she had made a huge mistake marrying this brother, as they both were hormonally charged teenagers who had followed paul's advice to get married if they could not go without sex.

  she just did not love him any more and she felt trapped by the jw stance on divorce.. this was her escape plan:.

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  La Capra

  The JC Df'd them for a 10 year minimum period.

  I find this so hysterical and also telling. Why DF anyone for a "minimum" time...Isn't armageddon coming tomorrow? Why give such an extended return date when "deep down in your heart" you knows this system will be over by then and the gamers will be destroyed. This is why I don't think the GB (and writers) believe their own vitriole. If kids knew they had an ever pushed out armageddon date of at least ten years, would they ever get baptized? Wouldn't find it out until you were in this situation, and didn't give a damn anyway.

  Shoshana
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  47

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-10-05 WT Study (Marriage--March 1)

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  comments you will not hear at the 4-10-05 wt study (march 1, 2005 issue)

  review comments

  will be in black and parentheses ().

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  La Capra

  I never have anything to add to Blondie's wonderful comments you will never hear. But this time I do, and (if I do say so myself), I believe it is additive. As no-fault divorce eventually spread as a legal reason to divorce (irreconcilable differences), the divorce rate began to rise. Before no-fault, marriages weren't dissolved without other legal reasons. Other countries that once restricted divorces have begun to allow no-fault through the last several decades. This is one of the largest reasons the divorce rate increased about 30 years ago. But the answer (of course) from WTBS would be that only in the "last days" (critical times, hard to deal with...) would governments allow such easy divorces. I would say that no-fault divorce certainly makes a critical situation a lot easier to deal with. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that before no-fault divorce, more than half the marriages were loveless, sexless, and generally "bad." There was just no easy way out. Shoshana
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  16

  are congregation revolving around mini-moguls or dynasties of elitist JW?

  by cyborgVision in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in your experience, did you ever see congregation being revolved around clan-like, all-influential families?.

  i don't know about your experiences, but in my personal experience and basically wherever i went i've seen congregation being influenced by mini dynasties of elitist jw.

  in fact their influence goes far beyond of what you'd normally consider "spirituality" and branches down to some absolutely bizarre issues such as what type of car you should drive, what brand of clothing is "christian", what sort of barbeque is appropriate, even what cereal you should not buy since it supports "babylon the great", etc.

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  La Capra

  This happened in my congregation when I was ten or eleven. We had the Sunday morning slot for years, and then it came down that we were supposed to rotate it. At some point, after a year or two in the afternoon, it was supposed to switch again. The BOE put it to a congregation vote to leave it the same (I'm not sure if it was our dynasty that wanted it in the afternoon, or the other congregation's dynasty that wanted the morning). Our congregation voted to move the Sunday meeting to the morning. The P.O. was p.o.ed. He had us re-vote about four times (interspersed with guilt-laced spiels indicating that we would keep voting all night if necessary) until we voted the way he wanted. If a fifth-grader could see the pointlessness of a congregation vote, how could the adults not? I referenced this situation in my disassociation letter eight years later (as evidence they did not have "Jehovah's spirit"). I don't recall there ever being another congregation vote after that debaucle. Just another reason disassociating was easy. Shoshana
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  20

  I need Help on a Research Project

  by JustMeNonJDub in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am currently writing a research paper on why people become jws.

  i would greatly appreciate it if many of you fine people could tell me the reason(s) why you joined the jws.

  those of you born to jw parents, please chime in also.

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  La Capra

  I was born into it. At the end of 1967. About two years before I was born, my second brother was born and my mother decided to give up her teaching career to raise her children. My mother is a brilliant, well-educated, very articulate person. My father, on the other hand, while quite bright, was not well-educated, and enjoyed simple things like watching television and reading books about history, and is not very social or talkative.

  About a year before I was born, my mother miscarried her third pregnancy, and I can only guess at her devastation-and all the self-loathing that goes with a failed pregnancy. She must have been depressed, and feeling very unimportant-just a mom with two toddler boys at home, and a husband who didn't challenge her intellect.

  Then one day (probably about the time she got pregnant with me), an old man with not only a Swedish accent, but a speech impediment, knocked on her door, while she was up to her nose in dirty diapers and Cheerios, offering her a paradise (where miscarriages never happened) of perfection, and a pseudo-intellectual pursuit to fill & sustain her mental cravings. They got her when she was weak, insecure, and feeling unappreciated. I am sure she was love-bombed. And she was educated-a real catch for the dubs back then (and probably still now).

  A few months after I was born my mom got baptised and is still, to this day, fully ensconced in the cult. I have one brother who is "sort of" in, but my other brother and I are out. My dad never joined. And for all the times he could have left us and gotten himself a normal life and family, he stayed. What character! I know that was a true parental sacrifice on his part - not to leave - when leaving could have been so easy.

  And as for my mom, because she is married to an unbeliever, she will never be in "the in crowd" that she so longs to join, nearly 40 years, never being good enough. What a waste.

  Shoshana
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  12

  Need Ideas - Parenting Problem/Question

  by exjwshell in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's a question to all of you parents out there.... do any of you, especially those who were born and raised as a jw, have trouble parenting your non-jw children?...

  i've been "out" for 18 years and since then have married and had two children.

  i find it incredibly difficult to not parent "witness style".

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  La Capra

  "Mom, we are not witnesses. You are trying to raise me like you were raised."

  Baby, he's got your number. He may be right on point this time, but other times it could be a classic teenage manipulative technique (JW or not).

  I have worked with thousands of teenagers - it is their job to know what to say to best push a parent's buttons to get what they want. It's your job to see through the manipulations and distractions, and to be able to tell the difference between genuine concern and your prior conditioning.

  Good Luck with the teen years (and you thought your own were hard for you...)

  Shoshana
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  71

  Should I go sit at the kh next thurs when they announce my DF

  by cindykp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i could get there early, and save you all some seats!

  at least i would have someone to talk to after the meeting

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  La Capra

  I have not been to a Kingdom Hall since August of 1987. My life plan was never to go again-not even for my mother's memorial service. But-I would happily attend any disfellowshipping or disassociation (or soon to be "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses") announcement, to support and congratulate the newly liberated (margaritas immediately following!).

  Of all the actions we take to discourage others from making (or continuing to make) some of the mistakes we have made, I think this could be one of the more compelling. At a point where the individual is supposed to be at his lowest, most desperate, getting cut off from his love and community, the message that this person is not being cast out into nothingness would, in the least, aid the person leaving. At its best, some of the younger, unbaptized ones, might see that there is a whole universe of support outside the Kingdom Hall.

  I'll go anywhere in the San Francisco Bay Area to lend my support and congratulations.

  Shoshana
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  45

  The Supremes Abolish 4th Amendment

  by Amazing1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just a couple of days ago, the us supreme court ruled in a case that has demolished the 4th amendment which states:.

  amendment iv: the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

  previously, you were secure in your person, including your cloths, car, house, etc.

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  La Capra

  Ah, c'mon Jim, you gonna make me do this.....

  Police can detain and ultimately search (exception to the warrant requriement-exigent circmstance, the dope was about to drive away...) if there is reasonable suspicion to believe there is criminal activity afoot (articulable facts). There was no search inside the car until after articulable facts arose. The dog sniffed an odor outside the car. Once the dog indicated drugs, there is your articulable fact. There has long been a "plain-sniff" exception (as well as plain-view exception) to the warrant requirement as well-even though this doesn't quite apply, since the dog was sniffing outside, where it had every legal right to be.

  We criminal defense law clerks discussed this at break in Con Law tonight. This is not a new infringement on the Fourth Amendment being carved out. Now get that cop for making an unecessary stop in the first place, and then we can talk Fourth Amendment violations.

  Shoshana
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  23

  Note-Taking at Meetings: What's the Point?

  by Room 215 in

  1. social
  2. current

  the last time i was at a meeting, i was struck by how many jws -- mostly women and pre-teenage kids were assiduously taking notes.

  i mean, what is the point?

  do they really believe the guy on the platform is saying anything that can't be found -- and reiterated -- dozens if not hundreds of times in their printed material?

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  La Capra

  I developed a theory around the age of 11 (when it completely hit me that there was a glass ceiling at about 3 1/2 feet for the female types in the WTBTS) that the note taking was posing, rather than meaningful. None of the men took notes....why? Because they held the power, and didn't need to jockey as much for position. The women had no power so they did the one thing they could in front everyone to show how important they were, they took notes. The only women who held actual power (not position, like pioneers, who got dumped on more than listened to) were the elders' wives. And lo and behold, they rarely, if ever, took notes. I did a case study on two couples, when I was in my teens. When the husbands first started to reach for "privileges," the wives started to answer more and take notes. When the husbands were appointed MS, the wives took notes furiously. When the husbands became elders, the wives toned down the notes, and within a few months quit taking notes altogether. But the wives sure lorded their position over everyone else. I felt really bad for one of the couples, because when they first started coming around, they were a really nice, down to earth couple, with a couple of wild little kids. The kids turned into robots and the wife eventually slipped into a very sad and meloncholy state.

  Don't know why I remembered tracking those two couples, but, like everyone else, I was bored at meetings and needed something to do. I followed the power shifts.

  Shoshana
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  45

  Special announcment 20 march fore JW ?

  by happy man in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  someone informed me today that in two months time there will be a "special announcement" to all congregations.

  everyone must be present at the kingdom hall for it.

  my elders already know what it is, but won't tell me.

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  La Capra

  They pull this every year at Memorial time. I can only remember the gist...about how bible studies are available to anyone, or the date of the "special talk," or is it the invitation to the Memorial.... or something like that. Every year, everyone got excited-as though the date of Armageddon was going to be announced. Surely most of them have figured out the pattern...just like summer follows spring.

  Shoshana (who is happy that the little jiggy-jog between Christian lunar calendar and Jewish Lunar calendar puts Passover a month later than Easter, and after her final exams...)
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  39

  Hi -I'm Jewish

  by moshe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm an ex-jw - i converted to judaism .

  i just wondered if any ex-jw's like me are now jewish or have questions about judaism.. shalom,.

  moshe

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  La Capra

  I was raised a JW, but am now, very happily Jewish. For me, it was one of those things that was simply "meant to be." After making the decision, and converting, my family research showed that three of my four grandparents were Jewish, none of us from my generation knew. My parents didn't even know...or didn't want to acknowledge it.

  I belong to a reform synagogue, I find the ritual, and weekly holiday the exact things this soul needs. (Along with good food-but wait, isn't that the ritual!!!)

  Shoshana